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Battle with Dinoflagellates

Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Renmar on Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:10 am

am getting ready to go on the war path with some Dinoflagellates. I am determine to win the war with them.

Here is my planned of resolution and hopefully I can get some guidance. I do not follow all advice given, I find what works for me and go with it I read the thread from DLANDINO ... and I plan on looking at things from Boomer's perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer
Dave the kalk trick does work at time but not always. As far as different fauna eating Dinos' there are only a couple of know animals that eat it. As far as toxins go it often is not he issue as it is a different set species that does that. Tricks that seem to work well are doing 20% water changes 2 / wk for 3 wk and using a high grade GAC, changing it every 2 days, @ 1/2 - 1 cup / 50 net gals. This is backed up by shutting off the lights for 48 hrs i.e., M-T, each week for 3 weeks. And twice / wk removing the infected equipment for cleaning, using bleach and siphoning off all of the Dino's that you can in the tank during the WC. And cut your feeding in half. Also, use a good GFO for removing phosphates and change it once a week. At the 3 wk end you should have no more Dino issues. Also, continue with the Kalk and high pH.
I will not be cleaning my stuff of with bleach, but rather letting everything soak in some vinegar water for awhile. While cleaning my stuff, I'll also make sure to clean my return pump as well.

For raising pH, I will be using a kalk (limewater) slurpie introduced to my tank nightly. I have a 5L container that I will mix some up in. I am going to use 2 teaspoons of pickling lime in the container and let it drop over night (daily), throughout this process. How high do I want to get my pH up too?

Now, I am getting ready to place an order on Bulk Reef Supply's site for a dual reactor and I'm ordering some GFO and some Carbon.


Here is the carbon I am looking at getting (small particle):
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/1-5-pounds-half-gallon-bulk-lignite-aquarium-carbon-1.html

As for the GFO, I am not quite sure which one would be best .. so if I can get some pointers, I would greatly appreciate it. Which one of the two should I get for the GFO...

Do I want the GFO "Granular" Ferric Oxide or the GFO "Pellets" Ferric Oxide?
[url]http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...sphate-remover
[/url]



Here are my parameters...

3/11/2010
cal - 390
mg - 1290
alk - 9 dKH
amm -0
no3 -0
ph - 8.0
po4 -0
temp - 79.2



Here are some of the photos of the ugliness that I am fighting at the moment.

Image

Image

Image[/QUOTE]
Last edited by Renmar on Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ordered my army!

Postby Renmar on Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:10 am

However, on another note I have placed my order with Bulk Reef Supply and I am hoping to get this stuff by the end of this week. Here's what I ordered. I already had a MJ 1200 at the house that I use for water changes that I will be utilizing for the pump on the reactor.

Dual BRS GFO and Carbon Reactor 2041711$48.00
Half Gallon - 1.5 Pounds Premium ROX 0.8 Aquarium Carbon
1 Pound (453 Grams) Bulk GFO "Granular" Ferric Oxide

For other folks out there that have the Dual GFO and Carbon Reactor, where do you set your reactor at? In the sump or outside of the sump? I have to figure out where it is that I am going to set the unit up. I have a guy coming over tomorrow morning sometime to get some corals. After that I am going lights out on the tank. Do I want to go lights out on the sump as well?

Thanks!
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The army preparing for battle:

Postby Renmar on Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:13 am

The package arrived and has been installed:

Unboxed:
Image

Put some RO into the sink and let it run through, so that way it is nice and clear! Dust free baby dust free!
Image

Carbon moving:
Image

GFO tumbling, although you can't really tell in the photo cause of the mesh in the center..
Image

Excuse the cluster ****, but it's the room I have to work with.. so here it is all hooked up.
Image[/QUOTE]
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Renmar on Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:13 am

So last night, at roughly midnight I had removed the sheet off of the tank. I took my nice little flash light and flashed it in the tank to see if I could see anything as far as dinos went. Great news, nothing. However, that doesn't mean they still aren't there. I am still going to move forward with treating my tank for approximately a month for the dinos, even if I do not see any of them in the water column. I haven't turned the pumps off to see if any were floating as of yet, because I have to get ready to head into work. Tomorrow though, tomorrow .. as it is my day off.
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby GraviT on Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:48 am

I"m interested to see how this works out. Unfortunately, this is a war I fought for well over a year before I finally grew tired of losing livestock, tore the system down, cooked my rock and started over. You might try API Algaefix as it's pretty effective, but not a cure.
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby bimmerzs on Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:49 am

Just so you know...that's a lot of GFO you have in there for that sized tank. I use almost that much on 180 gallons of total water volume, that much will really yank down the phosphates if you have any....your sps may not like that so watch for any bleaching.

Cheers,
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Renmar on Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:17 am

bimmerzs wrote:Just so you know...that's a lot of GFO you have in there for that sized tank. I use almost that much on 180 gallons of total water volume, that much will really yank down the phosphates if you have any....your sps may not like that so watch for any bleaching.

Cheers,


I used the calculator, and the photos of it are with it moving around. The calculator that I used is the one from Bulk Reef Supply, so I used their measurements based on a 40gal volume system. I would have rathered been under than over in the amount on the calculations. When it's not moving around, it's roughly 1-1.5" lower than where it is right now :)
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby mtraylor on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:09 am

Well I have the Dual REactor and I have it outside the sump. I started mine out with about a half inch media in the reactor. I didn't run the reactor on my old aquarium that long, but I cant say I notice a differance in the use of it thus far.

My suggestion would be to fight the source of your problem first. The GFO will get your silicates down, but if you are still introducing the contaminates, then you will be fighting this battle for a while.

1. Do you buy your RO/DI water or make it yourself?
2. What is the TDS reading on the water you use for your aquarium?
3. What kind of food to you feed your aquarium and what is the frequency?

I had that problem at one time and one of the main contributers was the brand of food I had. It was full of stuff that I didn't need. i started rinsing it and I seen results in a couple of weeks. Hopefully you can find your source and get that carzyness out of there.
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Saltpro on Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:45 pm

According to the directions i got with my brs reactor. The carbon is not supposed to be moving or installed like you have it. Its supposed to be at the top with the middle sponge wedged below it. I dont know if it matters
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Renmar on Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:11 pm

bimmerzs wrote:Just so you know...that's a lot of GFO you have in there for that sized tank. I use almost that much on 180 gallons of total water volume, that much will really yank down the phosphates if you have any....your sps may not like that so watch for any bleaching.

Cheers,


According to the BRS calculator, I should have used:

Instructions
Amounts given by this calculator are suggested starting points. The amount of GFO required may vary from tank to tank. Monitor algae growth and adjust the amount of GFO accordingly if necessary.

GFO can be used in a filter bag, but is most effective when used in a reactor. Rinse thoroughly, until clear, before use.

Replace GFO every 4-8 weeks depending on your tanks needs. Monitor algae growth, particularly on the glass and adjust replacement time or the amount of GFO accordingly if necessary.
Product: Need: 10 tbsp; 0.63 cups


Now, this is estimated on a 40gal tank size. That's according to their calculator. Maybe it is off? Do you get the same thing when you calculate how much for a 40gal tank? Cause I sure counted out 10tbsp (tablespoons), and not teasppons.


mtraylor wrote:Well I have the Dual REactor and I have it outside the sump. I started mine out with about a half inch media in the reactor. I didn't run the reactor on my old aquarium that long, but I cant say I notice a differance in the use of it thus far.

My suggestion would be to fight the source of your problem first. The GFO will get your silicates down, but if you are still introducing the contaminates, then you will be fighting this battle for a while.

1. Do you buy your RO/DI water or make it yourself?
2. What is the TDS reading on the water you use for your aquarium?
3. What kind of food to you feed your aquarium and what is the frequency?

I had that problem at one time and one of the main contributers was the brand of food I had. It was full of stuff that I didn't need. i started rinsing it and I seen results in a couple of weeks. Hopefully you can find your source and get that carzyness out of there.


1) I make my RO/DI water myself.
2) My RO/DI shows 98 going in and 0 coming out.
4) I use a variety of food. Mixture between frozen and fridge food. I use frozen mysis and mysis/brine mixture. Along with Reef Nutritions Oyster Feast, Artic Pods, and Roti-Feast.

When I feed the frozen food. I take these precautions to get everything out as possible.

I get tank water and put it into a small bowl (siphon it out with a turkey baster). I put the frozen cube into a brine shrimp net, and allow for it to melt in room temperature while soaking in Kent Garlic. I then make sure to drain it and push any excess water through the net in order to get rid of any of the "stored" nasties (ie phosphates and etc.) from packaging. Then I let the fish eat as I put the net into the tank and dump the food into the tank in front of a power head.

Saltpro wrote:According to the directions i got with my brs reactor. The carbon is not supposed to be moving or installed like you have it. Its supposed to be at the top with the middle sponge wedged below it. I dont know if it matters


According to the instructions that I have with my BRS, this is what it said. Maybe, I misread .. but.

Add the Carbon to the Dual BRS Reactor

Unscrew the clear canister and remove the refillable cartridge.
Remove the camp from the cartridge and the foam disk inside (I read this as the bottom foam disk).
Add the appropriate amount of crbon to the refillable cartridge.
Using the foam disk push the carbon to the top of the cartridge. *The carbon must be firmly seated at the top because it contains a large amount of air and will float to the top otherwise*.


So, now that I re-read that... darn I wish there was a video, because Salt .. I think you may be right on this one buddy. (I'm ok with being wrong :))
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Renmar on Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:19 pm

So, to make sure I understand this .. for the carbon, you don't want it tumbling at all. You only want the GFO to tumble, is that correct?

Looks like I will be doing some changing of media in a bit.
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby derek4real on Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:25 pm

Renmar wrote:... darn I wish there was a video, because Salt .. I think you may be right on this one buddy. (I'm ok with being wrong :))


http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/brs ... gfo-videos

1:30 point of the video will show you correct and incorrect adjustments of the reactor.
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Renmar on Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:47 pm

Found that today derek.....

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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Saltpro on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:30 pm

I wasnt trying to prove you wrong. I was just hopeing i was doing it right [smilie=rofl.gif] Anwyays those are pretty solid reactors.
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Renmar on Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:42 pm

Saltpro wrote:I wasnt trying to prove you wrong. I was just hopeing i was doing it right [smilie=rofl.gif] Anwyays those are pretty solid reactors.


I called and spoke with Ryan today at BRS. He said that it doesn't really matter if it is at the top or at the bottom, as long as the carbon media is not tumbling around. The reason why we dont want the carbon specifically tumbling around is because of the ash it makes as it tumbles and grinds itself down.

Now as far as the GFO itself goes, he said that doesn't necessarily have to tumble .. but we want it to tumble, otherwise a nice solid rock will eventually form.

So, today .. I switched my carbon to the top of the reactor. I turned my circulation pumps off yesterday for 20/30 minutes. I saw no signs of dinoflagellates. However, I will still continue on with my treatment and planned course of action! My MP10 still looks really clean as well, whereas before .. it was getting covered in a matter of days. I cleaned everything except for the K3 when I did the vinegar bath. However, even now .. the K3 is not showing any signs at all of dino build up on it. Where as before it just made a huge cloud around the head when the water circulation was off. As soon as the tank clears up some, I will post some photos.

I finally was able to get my skimmer dialed in as well! Yay!
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby mtraylor on Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:17 am

I couldn't identify your skimmer from the picture, but what was wrong with it? Why did you have to redail it in? The reason I ask, is that usually if you have a skimmer dialed in you shouldn't have to touch it. I know when I start fooling around with mine, its a week or two ordeal trying to get it back to where I had it in the first place. One thing I do is clean the pump when the performance seems to be going down. One good soak in vinegar and I"m back and running like it was from day one. This way I dont touch the pre dialed in settings. You may want to try that.

Well this one is a hard one to crack. I think with your skimmer up and running well, I would also stop feeding the Reef Nutritions for a two weeks and see what your results are. The (Oyster Feast, Artic Pods, and Roti-Feast).
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Renmar on Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:27 pm

mtraylor wrote:I couldn't identify your skimmer from the picture, but what was wrong with it? Why did you have to redail it in? The reason I ask, is that usually if you have a skimmer dialed in you shouldn't have to touch it. I know when I start fooling around with mine, its a week or two ordeal trying to get it back to where I had it in the first place. One thing I do is clean the pump when the performance seems to be going down. One good soak in vinegar and I"m back and running like it was from day one. This way I dont touch the pre dialed in settings. You may want to try that.

Well this one is a hard one to crack. I think with your skimmer up and running well, I would also stop feeding the Reef Nutritions for a two weeks and see what your results are. The (Oyster Feast, Artic Pods, and Roti-Feast).



I got some new rock! So, I put in some more rock and re-aquascaped. As a result, the skimmer went nuts. I usually don't have to touch it. To answer the question, it's an ASM Mini skimmer. I have finally gotten it dialed back in. I had to raise it even further out of the water, than what it was before. So, I built another platform to go on top of the platform currently in there. Dialed in like a charm! No other problems than that, and already have about 1/8" of skimmate in the collection cup!
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Renmar on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:16 pm

On another note .. I noticed a little bit of dinos that were attached to a few tips on a few SPS. Even though, when I turned my power heads off and got nothing ... a little bit was on the tips of a few corals. I am going to nip this in the bud, by doing another round of 48 hr lights off/sheet over the tank period. I want to ensure that I get everything in one shot.

I have not done a water change in roughly a month. I won't be doing one for awhile longer, just to make sure that I have everything gone and I can feel 100% confident that it is not coming back. In the mean time, I am also keeping an eye on my water parameters and will be testing this Thursday (as my lights and tank are covered currently).

I do have a photo of the tank with all of my powerheads turned off and as you can see .. there are no dinos floating in the water column.

*** Disclaimer ... I haven't finished mounting all my stuff in their homes ... nor have I found a home for a lot of the stuff on the sand bed, so yes .. it's a busy tank currently. ***
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby bimmerzs on Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:55 am

Renmar wrote:
bimmerzs wrote:Just so you know...that's a lot of GFO you have in there for that sized tank. I use almost that much on 180 gallons of total water volume, that much will really yank down the phosphates if you have any....your sps may not like that so watch for any bleaching.

Cheers,


According to the BRS calculator, I should have used:

I[i]nstructions
Amounts given by this calculator are suggested starting points. The amount of GFO required may vary from tank to tank. Monitor algae growth and adjust the amount of GFO accordingly if necessary.

:))


I just start with a couple of inches of GFO, get the top layer just boiling(tumbling) then measure of phosphates the next day, if any phosphates measure I add another inch of media and repeat until no phosphates are measured. If I start seeing more algae of the front glass I replace GFO media with the same amount. If for some reason I am not able to change the media and phosphates rise I go back thru the slow build-up sequence so I don't shock my sps.
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Re: Battle with Dinoflagellates

Postby Renmar on Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:41 am

bimmerzs wrote:
Renmar wrote:
bimmerzs wrote:Just so you know...that's a lot of GFO you have in there for that sized tank. I use almost that much on 180 gallons of total water volume, that much will really yank down the phosphates if you have any....your sps may not like that so watch for any bleaching.

Cheers,


According to the BRS calculator, I should have used:

I[i]nstructions
Amounts given by this calculator are suggested starting points. The amount of GFO required may vary from tank to tank. Monitor algae growth and adjust the amount of GFO accordingly if necessary.

:))


I just start with a couple of inches of GFO, get the top layer just boiling(tumbling) then measure of phosphates the next day, if any phosphates measure I add another inch of media and repeat until no phosphates are measured. If I start seeing more algae of the front glass I replace GFO media with the same amount. If for some reason I am not able to change the media and phosphates rise I go back thru the slow build-up sequence so I don't shock my sps.


Yea, I am going to measure my parameters later on today. I just woke up. However, I have always read 0 for my PO4. Now mind you, that is with an API test kit. I am also not noticing any algae build up on the glass either.
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